Spencer Wetmore Slays

Grace: 00:00:00

Spencer Wetmore. Welcome to Frogmore Stew.

Spencer: 00:00:03

Thank you so much for having me.

Grace: 00:00:05

I'm a big fan and I really enjoyed doing some research on you. So you grew up in Charleston. You're a true Charlestonian.

Spencer: 00:00:11

I am. Born and raised.

Grace: 00:00:13

And you went off to a big deal college, Princeton, and then you went to law school at Vanderbilt. An attorney, a mom, happily married, and you started your career as a prosecutor in the Charleston County Solicitor's Office.

Spencer: 00:00:31

When I moved back home from law school. That was my first job.

Grace: 00:00:35

And did you have political goals as you were going through college?

Spencer: 00:00:39

Not at all. If you had asked me six years ago if I had political goals, I would have told you, no, it was not at all on my radar. After I left the solicitor's office, I went and worked for the city of Folly Beach and in local government for a long time.

Spencer: 00:00:55

I really felt like that was a great fit for me. I was able to write ordinances. We did some amazing environmental work and community work and recreation programs. And when this seat came open, people from. across political spectrums encouraged me to think about running. And it was honestly the first time I'd really thought about it.

Grace: 00:01:18

I'm always curious that who the people are that then encouraged them to run. Was it like your family or your friends or?

Spencer: 00:01:25

No. People that are involved in politics, other legislators, in local government, but not my coworkers, people that sort of had worked with me and knew that I was interested in issues that that mattered to the state. And then also some people that were already serving in office. Yeah.

Grace: 00:01:42

And that seat, it's district 115 down in Charleston. James Island, John's Island, Folly Beach, Kiawah, Seabrook, and that seat came open because Peter McCoy became U. S. Attorney. So you ran in the special election and then was there a runoff?

Spencer: 00:01:59

Yeah. So it was wild that very first year it was 2020. It was, I literally announced the week that we learned what COVID was and, And I went from what I thought was going to be a very normal campaign to a very weird campaign. , we had the primary for the special election and the general election both on the same day.

Spencer: 00:02:19

And I won the runoff by five votes. Actually, it was eight votes for the special and five votes for the general. So I guess three people changed their votes. But yeah, so don't ever let anyone tell you that every vote doesn't matter.

Grace: 00:02:34

No kidding. And then you ran again in 2022 and you were reelected by a pretty wide margin.

Spencer: 00:02:41

Even in November of that year, it got a little easier. So that year I won. And then again in 2022. So this will be my third sort of regular cycle.

Grace: 00:02:51

Were you always progressive or did you grow up in a house of parents that had similar views to you? Did something change?

Spencer: 00:02:59

No, I actually, grew up in a house and my parents had similar views.

Spencer: 00:03:03

I actually don't talk about this a lot, but my stepdad represented Shannon Faulkner when she was the first woman who sued to go to the Citadel. She actually lived with my family. We had like secret FBI patrol at our house. I was probably in middle school at the time. it was honestly a really formative experience in seeing what I'll call the underside of how ugly things can be, which honestly was probably why I was not interested in politics for so long. So I don't talk about that a lot just cause I don't know how relevant it is. Now these days, but my stepdad did educational civil rights, his whole career. And my mom has always done land use and heirs property and the kind of things that, never made any money, but I always tried to help people.

Grace: 00:03:53

I was a college age kid at that time. I was. 19, maybe 18 or 19 at that time. . So there were men walking around downtown Charleston with t shirts on that said the Citadel Bulldogs, 3, 221 Bulldogs and one bitch. And

Grace: 00:04:11

I think. Just, I, like in hindsight, when I look back at Mm-Hmm. , I don't think I understood the, importance of it at the time. And I remember most of the people that had opinions on it around me were men. Yeah. And that was the driving narrative was through a men's lens.

Spencer: 00:04:30

Yeah. And I think people forget, and she was an 18 year old girl. This was her first time living outside of her parents house. And she came to pick me up from school one day and a bunch of my classmates jumped on the hood of her car and started shouting, save the male, shave the whale. And you're talking about beating the windshield of an 18 year old girl and telling her a whale.

Spencer: 00:04:50

It's like really, yeah. And I think that idea of this sort of group mentality, or some people call it a mob mentality, people really do get fired up in a way that when we bring it back down to just human beings having a conversation, they would never act that way. And that's been a really formative thing for me in politics.

Grace: 00:05:10

And luckily at that time, social media wasn't around yet because it would have been way worse. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. So I guess that leads into where have we come since then? , for women in this state, people in the legislator, both the state house and Senate, only 26 out of 170 are women.

Grace: 00:05:30

That's just about 15%. And yet our state is made up of 52 percent women. And I, I feel like. Representation is so critical in politics. The fact that the majority is only represented by 15 percent to me says that we actually haven't come that far.

Spencer: 00:05:52

Yeah. And to be honest with you, In some ways, it's even worse because , especially many of the Republican seats are so gerrymandered the issues that-

Grace: 00:06:02

don't even get me started on that, Spencer.

Spencer: 00:06:04

I know. I know. But because of that, we're really catering towards the 7 percent of South Carolinians who vote in Republican primaries.

Grace: 00:06:13

And to that point, our state houses, 88 to 36 Republicans and Democrats. Our state Senate is 30 to 16.

Grace: 00:06:22

And yet in a statewide election, the difference between Republican voters and Democrat voters is only about 250, 000 people out of two and a half million. And so I think that makes it very clear how badly gerrymandered we are, but I think there are some other things that sort of flow into that too, that create that situation, which is we don't have public referendums, citizen referendums, our voting machines.

Grace: 00:06:50

If you accidentally hit straight party ticket and then you go to reverse it, a warning sign comes up like you've done something wrong. And things like absentee ballots, you can only be 65 and older to have no reason absentee ballot, right? There are things like that, that all contribute to this outcome that our legislature is not representative of the people it's representing.

Grace: 00:07:16

And that goes for people of color. It goes for women.

Spencer: 00:07:20

I don't disagree, but just one little plug Two years ago, I was really proud that we did bring early voting. So no excuse early voting.

Spencer: 00:07:27

And for two weeks before the election, for no reason at all, you can go vote early. So

Grace: 00:07:31

let's hype that up. Don't you think though, that's because Republicans have suddenly realized like they're not going to vote early. This actually makes more people vote

Spencer: 00:07:39

it was a bipartisan bill. I negotiated on behalf of the Democrats. My friend, Brandon Newton was on behalf of the Republicans and we came out with a pretty good bill.

Grace: 00:07:46

Imagine that. So obviously your parents had some impact , but were there other things like Princeton is a pretty impactful place. don't imagine you were doing keg stands like I was every weekend in college. You were like doing real smart things.

Spencer: 00:08:03

I've always been really involved with criminal justice work. So that did start in college. I actually founded the Princeton Justice Project Prison Reform.

Spencer: 00:08:11

But yeah, I did my senior thesis on restorative justice and this idea of criminal justice reform and that prisons could be more than just a warehouse for locking human beings away, it could be a moment for rehabilitation, especially the younger you are, the more likely that is to be effective as well.

Spencer: 00:08:28

So that's always been a really big driving passion of mine. It's the reason I came to the solicitor's office. I hope that I did some good work, but when you're in it, it's a lot harder to be a force for change than when you're able to be on this level now and looking at it from a structural perspective.

Spencer: 00:08:45

I was really fortunate to be appointed to the, Pre trial sentencing commission, which I hope will be able to replicate some of the work that Charleston County has started in terms of tracking data, looking at how are we prosecuting? How are we making decisions? How are we using discretion? So that's always been a driving passion of mine.

Spencer: 00:09:03

And I think it really shapes my view on politics. And then secondly, the work I did in local government and you start to realize how much zoning laws affect both sides, right? So it affects development and what our communities look like. And it also affects the generational transfer of wealth as a property rights question, heirs property.

Spencer: 00:09:28

And when you look at how Hilton had was developed, all of that is It's generational wealth that oftentimes didn't get passed down to black families. And Dion Tedder tells this story that there's a South Carolina Supreme Court case and because the chain of title included a former slave, his family was deprived of that property and some other family had that generational wealth transferred.

Spencer: 00:09:49

It's just, you realize how much property and local government and zoning and land use affects lives.

Grace: 00:09:56

The heirs property issue is really fascinating and it's awful.

Spencer: 00:10:01

There are definitely reforms that I think Senator John Scott, before he died, had convened that commission. And I think now identifying the next leader for that cause is going to be really important.

Grace: 00:10:13

So one of the things I wanted to ask you is really about party allegiance. Because I do feel like the older generations have become much more allegiant to their party and the younger generations are much more issue based. And, in the last 20, 30, 40 years, the allegiance that parties have commanded has become stronger.

Grace: 00:10:39

And then Trump is like a thing of his own. I don't really know what that is, but there used to be liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats. Now, any time that you hear any Republican speak, they have to be like, unabashedly pro life.

Grace: 00:10:55

And I feel like the Democrats can be a little bit more nuanced, but this really goes back to they're talking to primary voters, they're not really talking to the general public. And so If you're running in a primary versus a general, in the primary, you have to be probably more party centric in your words than when you're running in the general, because when you're running in the general, you really also want to work with those independents and make sure that everyone knows you will represent everyone.

Spencer: 00:11:24

I would say I am the luckiest person in the entire state house because it's like my district was tailor made for me. I don't really have to you. I don't agree with my district very much wants me to be who I am, right? Which is pro choice, pro women's issues, fiscally conservative. So when I vote in that way, or when I talk in that way, Republicans and Democrats back home tend to agree with me.

Spencer: 00:11:56

I really have the same message in the general and the primary. It's about working hard. It's about serving without ego and without pride. The need for credit because unfortunately, I think that's one of the things that women have to bring to the table. It shouldn't be our job to do it but here we are. sometimes we have to be the adults in the room who are willing to do that. To not get the credit for something, even though we probably deserve it, we have to be willing not to put our name on something because somebody else needs to get the credit in order for it to pass.

Spencer: 00:12:28

That message really doesn't change for me. Now, like I said, I'm So fortunate to have the district that I do and to have the voters that I do, because for the most part, my district is a classic Republican swing district, , right? it was a 20 point Romney district to a Biden district. And so it's a very classic suburban swing district that wants common sense policies. They want to know somebody is helping them build sidewalks and roads, but not wasting a whole bunch of taxpayer dollars, not going overboard on some of the, social things, but also speaking out honestly and clearly about discrimination attempts at the State House. And so I go pretty hard in committee and at the State House on issues like abortion and gun violence and to really To largely support from my district.

Grace: 00:13:19

It's interesting that most Americans would say that they are pretty socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. And I think that the far left progressives would say you can't be both. Typically what I say when someone asks what my politics are is that I'm socially very liberal, but I'm for effective spending,

Grace: 00:13:41

I want it to be effective. Have good outcomes. And I think that acknowledging that we have waste is something that Democrats don't do well. And I think that Republicans just go in and say, we need no spending. And so there have to be social services of some kind.

Grace: 00:13:59

But they need to be effective. And I think to your point of when you were working in the social justice system, you get caught in the cycle of what the system is set up to be. So really you're just like trying to. put a band aid on a giant gating arm wound versus when you get to the legislature, you can actually look what's causing that wound and figure out the best method to stop it from bleeding versus just continuing to send band aids and hoping that it someday goes away.

Spencer: 00:14:32

Exactly. And that's part of why I feel really fortunate to represent the district that I do, because it's one of the last purple districts. I don't have to really speak to a primary audience. I can say what I believe to be the, the real truth.

Grace: 00:14:44

And you have an interesting mix too, because you have probably at Kiowa and Seabrook, an older constituency and then maybe John's Island. Those are more like first time home buyers, some younger folks, and then James Island, same thing. It's very diverse too, so you get to speak to everyone.

Spencer: 00:15:05

I represent a district of islands and so environmental issues really matter. It does skew younger in the population centers, so the most populous areas of my district are James Island and John's Island.

Spencer: 00:15:16

And so being a young mom, which by the way, only 2 percent of the legislature are women with school aged children. I think people can see that I'm in the school fight.. I want our schools to be good because my kids go to those schools. The population centers of my district are truly young families. And I think that's probably who elects me every year.

Grace: 00:15:37

But also, what's the statistic about Kiowa? Aren't the collected taxes from Kiowa something like 50 percent of our income in the county?

Spencer: 00:15:47

I don't think it's quite that high, but in general, yes. The 6 percent homes, Kiowa, Seabrook, Folly, Sullivan's, and Isle of Palms, all of them have, about 20 percent full time residents. That 80 percent is probably paying for most of the rest of the county across all of our beach town.

Grace: 00:16:06

And Kiowa doesn't have services, right? Like

Spencer: 00:16:08

They have their own water district, their community association does roads. All of those communities are absolutely net positive. They send a ton of revenue into the state and into the county. And then all they want are some roads in return.

Grace: 00:16:25

Give them the roads. Just give them some roads in John's Island, please. You mentioned something else. That is always a thorn in my side.

Grace: 00:16:36

We have a part time legislature and it pays, I think, just over 10, 000 a year, plus a per diem. So essentially you have to have. Another job unless you're super wealthy person. And that really limits who can actually take that job. Because unless you have a job already that allows you flexibility, of where you can work. You can't just leave for four months. Mm-Hmm. and go to Columbia four days a week.

Grace: 00:17:03

It really is limiting in who our representatives are, right? So that's one challenge. And then the second challenge financially, being able to go out and campaign, being able to be in all of the places that you need to be. If you have little kids, how do you do that?

Spencer: 00:17:20

So the challenge is that most of the events, I want my husband with me knocking on doors, going to community events.

Spencer: 00:17:27

It really is a family campaign. Like I said, I grew up in Charleston, so we're fortunate to have parents here. But I would say the number one hardest part of being in office and the number one thing I need more than anything is child care.

Spencer: 00:17:41

And whenever Lilacate's friends ask me, or our neighbors will say, what do you need? What can we do? And I'm like, just sometimes on a Wednesday night, I'm going to call you and I need you to pick Lilacate up from school and feed her dinner and put her to bed and I will get her at 9 30. And that the childcare piece is the hardest part.

Spencer: 00:17:58

And I know you alluded to this, but yeah, there are some national organizations out there that have surveyed women and surveyed candidates in general. And One of the biggest barriers is child care and the expense of child care and the need for child care.

Grace: 00:18:11

We should be launching a campaign to get stay at home moms to run for state house and state Senate.

Spencer: 00:18:18

This is, I think it's a huge untapped market.

Grace: 00:18:21

Totally. And if you go back 30 years to 1992, this is back to where we started Shannon Faulkner, the state of South Carolina in the state house, 73 Dems to 50 Republicans in the state Senate, 30 Dems to 16 Republican, almost the exact opposite of where we are now. And slowly over time, they pick off two seats here, four seats there, a few seats here, four seats there to where we are now. And now it feels like we're stuck because it's so gerrymandered. They're really, as you said, aren't that many flippable or even swing districts. And in. 2022, the Dems lost, I think it was six or seven seats in the House . And now it's a Republican super majority. How do you see the Democrats ever balancing this

Spencer: 00:19:14

I'll tell you what I think is going to happen. I think the Republican Party is about cleave itself in half .

Spencer: 00:19:22

Either the Freedom Caucus sort of gains the mantle of the Republican Party, or they almost form like a third party. The Freedom Caucus right now does not caucus with the House Republicans. So already, more so than when I first got elected, the Democrat bloc of voters matters if we align ourselves with the freedom caucus on issues like medical marijuana.

Spencer: 00:19:45

We can overcome the leadership or the sort of establishment Republicans. I do think the democrats will pick up some seats this cycle. I think we lost some that we should not have lost last time and I think there are a couple, especially here down in Charleston that are that we can flip back, I also think the Freedom Caucus is going to pick up some seats.

Spencer: 00:20:02

And so I think it may end up looking more like a governing coalition than a super majority in the next couple of cycles. And I think the more the Freedom Caucus either takes over the Republican Party or competes with the Republican Party, you're going to see the Democrats matter more and more.

Grace: 00:20:20

And the interesting thing about the Freedom traditionally the state Republican party has been largely religious conservative based politicians.

Grace: 00:20:32

And then there were few sprinkled in like the Tom Davis's that were a little bit more on the moderate side, but it feels like now the traditional Republicans have become really religious. And conservative. And then the Freedom Caucus is like the Tea Party of Libertarians Exactly. Where they may be religious, but they still want no government

Grace: 00:20:59

And there are these weird intersections, like you just said, of medical marijuana where the Democrats are like, oh yeah, that's freedom. So how does abortion sit with them? Like that to me is where the, this the line of libertarianism. Under the guise of religion gets complicated.

Spencer: 00:21:19

I think there are national organizations out there that have done such, I hate to say this, like this, a quote unquote good job of making abortion groups like the Alliance Defending Freedom, for groups like the Alliance Defending Freedom, for example, they raise.

Spencer: 00:21:37

Um, And then they write the bills that they then come back in and litigate on. So for example, the abortion bill or the medical ethics bill or the , quote unquote savings, women's sports, which by the way, somebody mentioned the Citadel and defending that. And I almost lost it, but I digress.

Spencer: 00:21:54

So all of these bills. They find a small nugget of things that people do care about, and then they dramatically make it into this big thing. And then they use all that money that they raise to primary people who don't agree with them. And so probably half of the Republicans that vote for these abortion bills would rather not personally, Freedom Caucus or Non Freedom Caucus.

Spencer: 00:22:13

But that is one issue where these national organizations have done such work to make it a do or die issue for Republican, voter or elected official in a primary that Freedom Caucus or not. In the House, you're going to see every single person vote for this. In the house, William Coxwell was the last Republican who didn't vote for abortion, and of course in the Senate as Sandy Sin and the sister senators have stood up against it.

Spencer: 00:22:39

But in the house, not one Republican. And that's because of the work of these national organizations that make it such a touchstone issue for Republicans.

Grace: 00:22:48

How much do you think the national political agenda affects us in South Carolina? It feels like a lot.

Spencer: 00:22:57

Yeah, way too much. I hate it. Everything gets so nationalized and all of a sudden I'm AOC and Hillary Clinton and they put out mailers where they Photoshop.

Spencer: 00:23:08

I was just, I had to figure out how to get some of these Democrats into like pant suits and they stand us next to Hillary Clinton. And it's just, Oh yeah. Hillary's a great friend of mine. I call her up all the time. And we share policy. I wouldn't know how to get in touch with somebody in Washington if I tried.

Spencer: 00:23:22

The idea that like we're all sharing policy is so Right. That's the fear factor that sells.

Grace: 00:23:28

And there is a lot of states rights talk from the right And so you would think that because that's one of their primary platforms that they would be hyper focused on the actual issues of the state that are Pressing

Spencer: 00:23:44

Oh, come on. There's no intellectual consistency.

Grace: 00:23:48

Thank you, Spencer, for that reminder.

Spencer: 00:23:51

Facts don't matter. Hypocrisy is fine.

Grace: 00:23:54

It's really depressing because there are pressing issues. We are flooding. Charleston is underwater. Columbia is having earthquakes. There is stuff that's happening all over the state . And because the environment to so many people doesn't exist. That's where national politics comes in here and you're like, no, walk outside during a rainstorm.

Grace: 00:24:17

You're underwater. Yeah.

Spencer: 00:24:18

And to everybody listening, let that be a reminder how much local government really does matter. And so I really encourage young people or any people at all, but especially somebody who might have a little bit of an interest in, Either get involved in your city council. I've seen three people come in and move the needle on a local zoning issue.

Spencer: 00:24:36

I've seen five people come in and change a local election, right? Reminder to everyone listening that you should get involved in local government because sometimes it feels like the state house is just an adult daycare. No, I'm kidding. But local government is maybe the last frontier of where people can really come in and make a difference on issues that matter.

Grace: 00:24:56

Local government and equal representation, like real representation is a key piece to this too. Gretchen Whitmer was here a couple of weeks ago and just listening to the things that they've had done because they have the perspective of men and women running their government.

Grace: 00:25:14

It's right. It's really impressive. It really is. That you are working in a, what must be a bang your head against the wall, pull your hair out job every day. Body of government. How do you see work getting done? Do you find that you have to be the most creative person in putting things together? Is it like building friendships with people that don't agree with you. What do you do to get stuff done?

Spencer: 00:25:41

I'll be honest. As much as, people hate this about politics. It is largely transactional. In other words, you build relationships and you build coalitions. And I always ask my constituents, especially my close democratic friends and folks that I know are really active in the party.

Spencer: 00:26:00

I always ask for because sometimes I do support things because I'm trying to build relationships and trying to build political capital. And then frankly, to get things done, you have to spend that political capital.

Spencer: 00:26:12

So I'm always the one willing to sit down and rewrite a bill. There's a lot of debate about how many lawyers are too many up at the state house. But frankly, the background of going to law school makes me poised to sit down and say, Hey, look, let's solve some constitutional issues with this bill.

Spencer: 00:26:29

I will do the work. And, you can build political capital that way, too. It doesn't always have to be votes and issues and things like that. You can do it by putting in the work and saying, Hey, yeah, I will take the time to sit down and help rewrite this bill or compare these two versions. And I will work with staff to make sure that it's something that we can all live with.

Spencer: 00:26:50

And. Putting in that work is also something I've tried to do, so that people do see me as a credible operator up there. They know that I'm going to put in the work and I don't just thrive at conclusions lightly. I try to only speak out when I think I can either move the needle or because it absolutely has to be said.

Spencer: 00:27:09

So that. People do trust me and they do come to me and want to work together on issues that matter.

Grace: 00:27:15

And to your point, not half, but 45 to 47 percent of your district voted against you, said they believe what your Republican colleagues believe, and yet you are their representative, so you have to represent them in some way that acknowledges them, right?

Spencer: 00:27:35

absolutely. And there are times where there may be an issue that I know that there are people in my district that, that don't agree with me on. So maybe I try to find a middle ground or a compromise, even though it's not exactly what I would have done.

Spencer: 00:27:47

we're representatives. It's a representative democracy. That's what we're supposed to do.

Grace: 00:27:51

That's right. How much do you think the presidential election will affect the downvote races? I think we're going to have a huge turnout.

Spencer: 00:28:00

Honestly, compared to 2022. I think a lot of the problem was just Democrats not voting or not coming out.

Spencer: 00:28:07

And so I do think that the presidential turnout Bump will help a lot of the down ballot races, to be honest. Maybe not all of them, , cause there will be just an equal amount of turnout on the Republican side for people passionate about Trump. But to the extent that we have seats that lean democratic or things like that, that just, we just didn't put in the work. I actually think presidential turnout will help a lot.

Grace: 00:28:31

He didn't run 45%. of our races for the same house two years ago.

Spencer: 00:28:37

we had unlimited resources, I know we would do more. I do think that there is some good in focusing on where you can win and

Spencer: 00:28:45

I Actually think that putting somebody in just for the sake of it Unless that person is definitely a credible messenger for the party I don't know that we're doing ourselves any favors just by putting someone in for the sake of it

Spencer: 00:28:56

So I think they're doing amazing work up in Greenville and Spartanburg. I know you've had Catherine Harvey on your podcast, just really focusing on strategic races.

Spencer: 00:29:06

And I think especially in races where. Maybe a longtime Republican or somebody that's seen as more moderate or electable, if they lose to a Freedom Caucus person, all of a sudden that Democrat race might really be in play. So I do think being strategic about it is important, I do think the turnout overall will help us, especially in these Democratic leaning seats that we probably shouldn't have lost in the first place.

Grace: 00:29:30

So unlike in the U. S. House of Representatives, that has been like the least effective at getting anything done. Our state house has actually done a ton this year, right? You guys, there are lots of bills have passed there, all kinds of things have come through this session, but it's so much that I actually would love to have you come back on once the session is over and we can talk through the good, the bad, the ugly and what to look forward to in the next session.

Spencer: 00:30:01

I think that'd be awesome. Let's do it.

Grace: 00:30:03

Okay. Thank you so much for being with us today, Spencer. I love having you on. and that's all this do for today.