Second Helping - The "You Up" Call, A Not-So-Great Debate & the Kindness of Strangers

Grace: 00:00:00

Hello, Katelyn.

Katelyn: 00:00:01

Hey, Grace. How are you?

Grace: 00:00:03

I'm doing great. How are you?

Katelyn: 00:00:05

I've had a little bit of sleep, but I'm good.

Grace: 00:00:09

Why? Why have you, your naps, you're not catching up on your naps.

Katelyn: 00:00:13

I had the most exciting thing happen to me last night. I checked off a bucket list item. I got a text from my neighbor at about midnight, saying, you up? But it wasn't what you think.

Grace: 00:00:26

She Was it a booty call?

Katelyn: 00:00:31

It was not. In fact, it was her water broke. Oh my. I know. And but here's the catch. She is only 32 weeks. She's pregnant with twins, and her husband happened to be on the last business trip before she supposed to go into labor, which is not until November. So I got to rush over in a nineties movie, pack a bag. And do you have this, do you have that? We left like all the lights on when I came home at three o'clock in the morning and parked her car. And so I am so tired today, but it was, I'm just super happy. She has not had the kids. They're going to try and incubate her as long as possible at the hospital. But yeah. Super fun. That is

Grace: 00:01:17

in fact the opposite of a booty call.

Katelyn: 00:01:20

Yes, in fact, correct. Her husband does appreciate the irony of the you up text though.

Grace: 00:01:30

And where was Ada in all this?

Katelyn: 00:01:32

To be fair, Ada jumped out of bed when I called her name because I was still downstairs, I had been watching the VP debate and I was like, babe, I need you to pack me a bag immediately. I don't know if I'm going to have to stay at the hospital. And she's like, why the hell are you going to the hospital? It was truly a comedy of errors and it was really fun and I'm just grateful that I got to be part of it.

Grace: 00:01:54

Oh my gosh. We lived in New York City for a time. My second child was born in New York City and I took a taxi cab to the hospital and got to the hospital at 3 a. m. and delivered at 317. Stop it! Very fast delivery and on the way the taxi driver was like, I've never driven a pregnant woman. It was like his first time. I don't even think he'd been in the U S for very long. And he was like, what in the hell am I doing? I delivered on gay pride parade day and it was three o'clock in the morning. There were drag Queens. And it was one of the most hilarious experiences of my life. We were driving, speeding up sixth Avenue and there were like people everywhere still in the streets, partying and and I was like, get out of the way. I'm having a baby. It was really funny.

Katelyn: 00:02:53

So funny you talk about how you got there because I had a couple drinks. And so I looked at her and said, okay, we either have to take an Uber or you have to drive yourself in me.

Grace: 00:03:08

So she drove herself.

Katelyn: 00:03:09

She drove herself. And me to the hospital. When I tell you it was a comedy of errors last night, I am not kidding.

Grace: 00:03:19

Were you drinking because you were watching the debate?

Katelyn: 00:03:22

Yes, I was drinking because I watched the debate. Goodness gracious grace. I was like, I am going to not drink this evening. And I wouldn't even say halfway, a third of the way through the debate, I was like, absolutely not. And poured myself a drink.

Grace: 00:03:36

My first takeaway is what a snore fest. but the more that I have thought about it, that's what it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be a WWE event. It's not supposed to be some Like name calling, jab insult type thing. It's supposed to be about policy. It's supposed to be two humans that are nice to each other and understand that they disagree on policy. was my takeaway.

Katelyn: 00:04:10

Yeah. Listen, you know how much I love Tim Walz. He's my new favorite uncle, but he did not win that debate last night.

Grace: 00:04:18

No, he definitely didn't. He really didn't. Okay. But here's my other takeaway. JD Vance is the Republicans Al Gore. He's such a weirdo. And when he talks, you're like, it's cringe. It's not even that I disagree with a lot of his views. It's that he's almost like too smart he's not authentic. And so you keep seeing him try to take on these different personas of who he is, whether he's like a fighter, That's like in it for MAGA and Trump, or if he's trying to connect with someone it's just awkward. And he's a lot like Al Gore. Al Gore was super awkward and is super smart and can't like connect with normal people. And then you have, Tim Walz, who's The health teacher and the football coach, and he has connectability. Like he has authenticity.

Katelyn: 00:05:18

Yeah, I think so. Listen, the point of, as you said, the point of this is to demonstrate your party's policy and what you're going to bring to the ticket. And I just, regardless of the fact that I disagree with most of what JD Vance said last night, he did a better job presenting the vision of his party's ticket. Does it matter? Is that going to sway people? Are people going to be enticed by the fact that he was better at presenting it? I don't know. It depends on whether or not they really listened or they were just impressed with the fact that he was able to be a little smooth and have a little, bit of swag on the stage.

Grace: 00:05:59

He's written a book. He's done a book tour. He's, he's a public speaker. He's a good public speaker when he needs to turn it on. Tim waltz is clearly was very nervous and not comfortable on a national stage like that. And I think that he's not as savvy of a speaker is JD Vance's. Does the average American walking around have anything to say about this? No, they could care less. It's the vice presidential debate. I haven't seen numbers today of how many people watched it, but I don't think anyone that did watch it went in not knowing who they were already voting for.

Grace: 00:06:41

Like part of the reason that we're in such a mess is because we allow, the Politico class to drive what we should be thinking. And I think that's part of where we need to turn this around is it should be. Just regular old people to determine, what happens next. And I don't think anything that happened on that debate stage is going to impact anyone's lives one way or the other.

Katelyn: 00:07:13

And this is also, One of my biggest issues with Democrats in particular is we can be unforgiving when it comes to a poor performance. Like Trump is not exactly the most eloquent person in the entire world. He rambles on and on. Republicans embrace that, and Democrats don't. We expect this sort of perfect performance. And so my hope today is that most Democrats will be like, He's a good guy. He's, what he said was truthful, and while he didn't deliver it with the same sort of swag that J. D. Vance did, he still talked about what our party's ticket was promising and what you would be voting for. It just wasn't delivered with the bow that we were hoping for.

Grace: 00:08:01

Yeah. The one thing I am curious to see today is what Trump says. Because, he does not like to lose. And many after the last debate said that he lost. And today everyone's like Vance won, which again, I think it's childish. Either way. But I think Trump is more a zero sum type guy. He wants a clear winner and a clear loser. And I think Vance was the clear winner last night. And so I'm curious if that pisses Trump off that his vice president outshone him last night.

Katelyn: 00:08:41

The only thing that I think protected Vance from the wrath of Trump, this morning was the fact that JD Vance really defended him on the January 6th stuff. And, regardless of all of that swag, that was a, deeply disturbing answer. And I think Trump will be very pleased with it.

Grace: 00:09:02

Okay. So here's actually what he said. He said, obviously, Donald Trump and I think that there were problems in 2020 and It's really rich for democratic leaders to say that Donald Trump is a unique threat to democracy when he peacefully gave over power on January 20th, as we have done for 250 years in this country.

Grace: 00:09:24

I think that this is what, makes me so angry about politics right now is that is a blatant lie that he is, perpetuating to give people permission to overlook what happened on January 6th. And he's gaslighting the American public and every person in this country, whether they choose to believe it, it happened. It is real. It is true. And watching a vice presidential candidate on a national stage completely. falsify what happened on January 6th, regardless of anything else that happened, that to me was probably the most infuriating thing that I heard and makes me not want to give JD Vance even a chance if he is willing to lie to my face like that.

Katelyn: 00:10:25

Agreed. Agreed. Again, we can disagree on policy all day, but you cannot lie to me that what happened on January 6th wasn't a blight on America's democracy. And the fact that he rebranded it as a peaceful transfer of power, no people died on that day. People died on January 6th.

Grace: 00:10:45

And they're still arguing that Trump won, and so he couldn't say on mic that Trump won, and that's because he is afraid of Trump. He is afraid of the wrath of Trump. And I think that it was very clear, in many of his answers that he was speaking specifically To ensure that Trump didn't get upset with him and this is where the inauthenticity comes in is that, the whole point of a debate is to get new policies into the ethos and let people start talking about them, you want to see that from the two candidates, but I think. The authenticity piece in waltz is there more in that you can tell he is not trying to impress his new boss. Whereas JD Vance is definitely trying to impress his new boss.

Katelyn: 00:11:40

When I was looking at the New York Times this morning, they have dissected the minutes. And it was interesting because J. D. Vance spent equal amounts of time nearly attacking Walz and Harris, whereas Walz spent most of his time attacking Trump versus Vance. And that's certainly a. It's definitely a choice. Both of them were very collegial to each other. And so I, I found that interesting.

Grace: 00:12:09

One thing that J. D. Vance said that really stood out for me listening to experts has gotten us here. We need to listen to common sense. And that was even more disturbing, particularly after watching a lot in our state legislature where experts have come in, doctors, sheriffs and given them expert testimony. And somehow as a society, this is like a normal thing to say that we shouldn't listen to experts. We should come up with our own common sense. I'm all about common sense. But I believe that not listening to experts as part of what's got us into this disaster and is part of where we are as a society

Katelyn: 00:12:56

yeah. Common sense is subjective, right? Like to JD Vance common sense on housing is that immigrants are taking up so much of our housing that it is, skyrocketing the pricing of housing. And the reality is. That's not true. There are other things like Airbnbs, the fact that VCs and hedge funds own most of the low income properties and, are price gouging that the interest rate is too high and people can't afford it. That prices have gone up, over 20 percent in the last few years. There's so many different things that are pushing us into a housing crisis, immigrants living in housing is hardly, an issue .

Grace: 00:13:39

What he said sounded very, jovial and nice. And he just, he took, what Trump says in his like harsh rhetoric and he wrapped it and put a bow on top to make it a little bit more. Digestible, but the message is still there and I think that, people see through that,

Katelyn: 00:14:04

one last thing on J. D. Vance, for me. There was this one moment where they started talking about, healthcare freedom for women. And J. D. Vance looks directly at the camera and says something to the effect of, I know a woman. She's watching. Hello, woman. And I actually burst out laughing. I was like, what is happening right now? Who is he talking to?

Grace: 00:14:33

I know. It's so awkward. I know. Hello woman. It's so weird. I don't want to be stuck on JD Vance because Tim Walz also did have, there are some glitches in Tim Walz.

Katelyn: 00:14:45

Like he came out of the gate awkward. He fumbled the answer to the Israeli Palestinian Middle East. Question.

Grace: 00:14:54

Yeah.

Katelyn: 00:14:54

Wholeheartedly.

Grace: 00:14:56

He was like a deer in headlights. Yeah. You could tell like when JD Vance was talking and the camera was still on walls, his face, it almost looked like he was about to tear up. His mouth was like pursed, his lips were down. Like he was very uncomfortable.

Katelyn: 00:15:10

And every time JD Vance was talking, Tim Walz was writing like a novel every time JD Vance talked

Grace: 00:15:17

he has probably been jammed up by so much information in his brain. And I feel like you could see. He was like, Oh God, okay. I know the answer to this question. I need to write all the things in my brain. And you could see, it was like, okay. Israeli, I ran, blah, blah, blah. Like he was just saying things. And then, oh, he said he had befriended school shooters.

Katelyn: 00:15:41

I know. I was like, did I hear that right?

Grace: 00:15:44

Oh no. Oh no. Back up. Back up. Yeah. No, you just said it. Back up and say school shooter victims. Oh no. Yeah. That was weird. And then he definitely has had some weird stuff. Where he said he's been places, but he hasn't

Katelyn: 00:16:00

That concerned me. I, that was the first time I learned about that. And I was really disappointed by

Grace: 00:16:06

like being in Tiananmen square when that happened and he actually wasn't. And then when they asked him how did he was like, no,

Katelyn: 00:16:13

Oh, I misspoke

Grace: 00:16:16

misspoke. That's not great. It's so weird. Why are you saying that you're somewhere that you weren't like, that's not going to make people like you more.

Katelyn: 00:16:26

I don't know. I think people think it will. I think, being relevant, being part of history, people embellish things. Maybe before he didn't think he was going to run for some political office, he was a teacher and a football coach. So his football, Players looked at him like, wow, coach was at Tiananmen Square.

Grace: 00:16:44

That to me is him feeling self conscious and being an average guy that goes to the grocery store and coaches football. So I need to add some sort of exciting thing into my repertoire, but just living in China as much as he did is an abnormal average American thing. I don't think him saying he was at Tiananmen Square makes him any more relevant.

Katelyn: 00:17:07

I don't either, but I think that there are people that might influence.

Grace: 00:17:12

I will say too. They both knew what they were talking about at least, right? Like they both understood the assignment and to that effect, I think at times it felt like you were sitting in a classroom.

Katelyn: 00:17:25

I did a poll and asked for people's opinion on Instagram. How are we feeling about the VP debate? And my options were snore fest, infuriating, and really informative. And it was a 50 50 tie between snore fest and infuriating. The people that I talked to, this morning who've watched the debate, their takeaway was neither of them actually answered the questions in their entirety. That's what. I watched the BBC prior to the actual start of the debate and this interviewer just really would not take no for an answer when she was asking questions and wanted to get a real answer. And I thought, God, I just wish there was more of that. I have big problems with the American news media system. Yeah.

Grace: 00:18:17

I think there are so many places to get news now, that watching the responses today over last night's questioning, it's like real time of watching two supposed truths happen directly in front of us. And I've been reading through all the blog posts today, and it is very evident that there are two different factions of people in this country That going to be what causes problems for us as we move forward. And no one is going to have any consensus about what to do because none of us believe the same thing.

Katelyn: 00:18:59

The bright side of that is that you just described Europe's politics, right? There's so many political parties that they have to form coalitions and work together. They have strengthened the muscle of collaboration over the last few hundred years. And that to me is something that we haven't done. We don't want to collaborate. We have an individualistic society that's based on a capitalistic, economy with a two party political system. And those things just continue to wedge us into it's me, not you. And it certainly isn't us.

Grace: 00:19:33

As we continue watching this, I often ask my eighties ladies in the New Yorker group, did you feel the same way in the sixties when in upheaval as you do now, were you as freaked out about democracy and our, society and many of them say yes. That is soothing in a way that these are cycles and we have been, in a pretty chill cycle up until probably 2008 when Obama was elected and that's when the chaos started ensuing that was similar to the 60s.

Katelyn: 00:20:19

History is cyclical. Humans are cyclical. Yeah. And it feels intense, but because it's the first

Grace: 00:20:26

time it's happening to us. Yes. Yeah. And so it feels really intense. One funny thing I did want to point out this week, Trump made a post on truth social and as much as I just try to focus on what his policy stuff is every once in a while, one of his his statements will really stick out to me. And I've been laughing about this all week. He said, women are poorer than they were four years ago. They're less healthy than they were four years ago. They're less safe on the streets. Then they were four years ago. They're more depressed and unhappy than they were four years ago. And they are less optimistic and confident in the future than they were four years ago.

Grace: 00:21:10

I will fix all of that and fast. And at long last, this national nightmare will be over. Women will be happy. healthy, confident, and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion because it is now where it always had to be with the states and a vote of the people and with powerful exceptions like those that Ronald Reagan insisted on for rape, incest, and the life of the mother. But not allowing for Democrat demanded late term abortion in the 7th, 8th, or 9th month, or even execution of a baby after birth. I will protect women at a level never seen.

Katelyn: 00:21:52

What is this level never seen? He always defaults to it. It's like unprecedented, level never seen, like you've never seen before.

Grace: 00:22:01

What women is he talking to, Melania? Is that who? Is poor and less healthy and more depressed and feeling less safe on the streets. And then that takes me like in my head, I'm like, okay, so Phyllis Schlafly, if you listen to that piece, she opened every speech with I want to thank my husband for letting me be here today. And she did that to like, piss everybody off, so maybe that's what he's doing, I just feel like what planet is that dude living on it was COVID four years ago, you want to talk about being less healthy and depressed four years ago?

Katelyn: 00:22:41

I have not had enough sleep to deal with that tweet. Okay. I think it's really,

Grace: 00:22:46

I just thought it was really funny. I thought that was hysterical. One of the things that, that worries me a little bit now is that, we've definitely normalized his crazy anyway, I did look at a poll, that the types of misinformation Americans say are most concerning. And the thing that I think is so funny about polls right now is that when you ask a broad question like that, what types of misinformation do you think is most concerning? You can ask that question and two people one, a super conservative, one is super liberal. We'll each say, yes, politicians spreading misinformation is the most concerning thing to me, but they mean polar opposite things. Yes. And so that's the number one answer was politicians spreading misinformation. It was 51 percent of the people polled said that was the most, concerning.

Katelyn: 00:23:46

You and I have talked about this before. My question in all of that. Yes, I agree. No matter what side of the coin you're on politically, politicians spreading misinformation is a problem. But how do we come back from this? We can't make it illegal. The First Amendment won't allow us to, put lid on free speech like that. just don't understand why we cannot hold people accountable Who are supposed to govern us accountable for the things that they say in a way that you and I shouldn't have to be held accountable because we're not governing anything. I'm not protecting the people in any way. I don't understand why we cannot hold elected officials or candidates. To a higher standard.

Grace: 00:24:31

I think there's a bigger question about that, and that goes to, advertisers can manipulate the truth in a lot of different ways. Look at U Haul. U Haul says, rent a U Haul for 19. 99 a day. There is no U Haul that you can rent for 19. 99 a day. Did you

Katelyn: 00:24:51

choose U Haul because I'm a lesbian, Grace?

Grace: 00:24:53

No. Ha ha. I did not sit at, should I say Subaru, Subaru are advertised even worse. No, that is not why I chose you. I chose you all because it pisses me off. Every time I see the ad that says 19. 99 a day. And I know damn well that you cannot rent a U Haul for 19. 99 a day. What's the trope on U Haul to lesbians? I don't know that one.

Katelyn: 00:25:18

You don't? No. The joke is, what do lesbians take to a second date? A U Haul.

Grace: 00:25:24

I'm learning new stereotypes today, Katelyn. Thanks. There just are so many facets to the free speech thing and then political, people are held to even a lesser standard on the first amendment because political free speech is the highest protected speech that there is. And so then who becomes the arbiter of what is okay and what is not. And I'm saying that as if you did have some sort of guardrails against political free speech, you can't really agree then to who says what's okay and what isn't.

Katelyn: 00:25:59

So this is one of the places where. Ensuring that journalists are able to completely do their job and be protected. I think that we as a political consumer, just like we are a consumer of goods. And we know that when we see you haul 1999, it is not going to be that cost. And it's frustrating as hell, but we have to be in our consumption of politics.

Grace: 00:26:30

Yeah, definitely. And, I was listening to a podcast recently, People Who Read People by Zach Elwood. And he had this doctor, Dr. Karina Korostelina, who basically studies insults, particularly insults within a political context. And, Her definition is that they are strategic tools used to manipulate in identity based conflicts. And you and I talk about identity based conflicts all the time. Yeah. And that they're used to manipulate in ways that both assert power, challenge legitimacy, and reinforce social boundaries, right?

Katelyn: 00:27:08

And so with that, there is a desire for both power and recognition. And I think when you look at some of the ways that Trump in particular talks, he is a master at this. And what is he trying to do? He's trying to assert his power over people. He's trying to challenge their legitimacy. And then there's the reinforcement of social boundaries. So you're insulting immigrants by calling them criminals and, instilling that they're less than an American.

Grace: 00:27:39

He loves to call women bimbos.

Katelyn: 00:27:41

Yes,

Grace: 00:27:41

that's one of his favorite things.

Katelyn: 00:27:43

Exactly. And so, you know, you use that as an instrument of aggression, and you do end up reducing the legitimacy of others on a national stage.

Grace: 00:27:54

The self awareness, of, his vocabulary is ridiculous, he loves to call women bimbos, and yet he's cheated on all of his wives, he's, Had sex with porn star. Like he's all over the place when it comes to what you would consider a female bimbo. He's a mimbo. He's a male bimbo to take from Seinfeld. He loves to dish it out. But he has zero self reflection on what he's actually done in his life. It's very hard to take a look at yourself in a real way and see who you are as a person.

Grace: 00:28:32

And I think he just doesn't. Know who he is. I think he's like afraid to see who he is. And so he just dishes out all these things that he deems to be, not respectable. And yet he actually does most of the things that he accuses other people of doing.

Katelyn: 00:28:50

Dr. Coricillina's other point is that leaders then loan the insults to their followers, and so either when somebody else calls a leader an insult, the group that follows them is so upset about it, but also it goes back to that reinforcing social boundaries. The left calls the right deplorables and the right calls the left snowflakes. And, we're falling into this trap where insults become part of our political ideology

Grace: 00:29:18

and that's why. Politicians love to say, and this isn't new to Trump, this has been going on forever. Politicians love to say, they're not coming after me, they're coming after you.

Katelyn: 00:29:28

Right.

Grace: 00:29:29

And so when they say that to me, I'm the blockade. I'm the person that's taking it on so that you don't have to. And that then makes you this sort of protector. And anyone who studies or knows you, Someone that's even been in a dysfunctional relationship. You can see the exact tools that people use to, to control other people. And whatever. Okay. We got to get to our whole nother thing. Which got Katelyn.

Katelyn: 00:29:58

Mine is a little sentimental and it's because we obviously dealt with some serious weather and our, fellow South Carolinians in North Carolina and whatnot, Florida, Georgia are really struggling right now. What I've seen is, Beyond this devastation. And I got, I had to be honest. I'm a little speechless about the fact that whole towns are just gone, in North Carolina, but the helpers, grace, they're out and about. I have had so many people rally, gather supplies, drive up to Hendersonville in North Carolina to drop things off. I just, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for humanity. And even with all of these identity politics, when it comes to, tragedy you just see the best of people sometimes. And that's my whole nother thing this week is just,

Grace: 00:30:49

it's the Mr. Rogers thing. When you see a tragedy, find the helpers. See the people helping. Yeah. Okay. Mine is sweet today too. So I was in Nashville last week and I was flying back. On Friday morning. And I was on Southwest and it was crazy, right? Because when I woke up in Nashville Friday morning, the news was code red for Tennessee. The storm is on its way. And I wasn't even sure if we make it out, but I was flying Southwest and we made it out before the storm got to Tennessee and then got to Charleston after it had passed. But so Southwest, is a cattle call. You get on grab your seat, whatever you can do.

Grace: 00:31:30

I was in like the second row and there were these two guys in the first row in front of me and they were on like the window seat in the aisle seat. So the middle seat was open. And so everybody boarded. And then at the very end, that's when people start filling up the middle seats. The two guys that were in front of me were like, young, very handsome guys. And one of them was one of the guys from Southern charm. And I'm not sure which one it wasn't Shep. I is Craig.

Katelyn: 00:31:58

Or Austin. I don't know.

Grace: 00:32:00

I think it was one of the two of them. I,

Katelyn: 00:32:03

I don't know. Does he, is he the one that sews pillows?

Grace: 00:32:06

I don't know. I haven't watched that many episodes. Grace! I watched like the first two seasons maybe. I don't know. Anyways, so Those two guys are in front of me and I overheard them say something about the people's choice award. So maybe that's why they were in Nashville. And this much, much older lady gets on board at the end and sits in between the two of them. And I'm watching the whole thing go down.

Grace: 00:32:34

I'm like, Oh God, this is going to be interesting. She didn't know how to get her seatbelt on. She like had issues with her bag because she was in the bulkhead and they had to get her bag. These two guys were the nicest, kindest, most loving, caring humans to this little old lady. And she talked and they kept asking her questions and you could tell she was super nervous because we were about to fly into a storm. And they literally, Took her in their care and were super kind. And I feel like a lot of times and there were no cameras on them. Nobody knew who they were. There was no fanfare whatsoever. This was a genuinely kind and nice, just human gesture to this sweet lady. And so to that, Southern charm dudes, I say, bravo.

Katelyn: 00:33:28

Oh, I love it. I don't, what is it with celebrities on flights recently? I had Richard Schiff from the West wing on my flight the other day. And yeah, I didn't know who he was and I knew he was famous and I knew him, but so I took A little sneaky photos. Is that? That's what I

Grace: 00:33:49

should have done. I should have taken a sneaky photo. Yeah. I didn't want to be a creeper.

Katelyn: 00:33:53

Clearly that wasn't a problem for me. I need to go to sleep. I'm admitting too much today.

Grace: 00:34:01

You've experienced your first round of what it's going to be like to have neighbors with newborns. They are going to be calling you at all hours of the night. You up? You up is going to mean a whole new thing.

Katelyn: 00:34:13

I'm ready for it. I'm ready for my auntie life.

Grace: 00:34:17

All right, Katelyn, that's all the stew for today.